I'll side with John McCain, Ronald Reagan, and the Israelis on this one: torture is illegal and ineffective. I say leave it to the Nazis--we're better than that.
well that's pretty good company to keep. but read the article. it's quite provocative. i know i have heard McCain's bona fide opinion on this matter. although i do not recall Regan weighing in the subject. as for the Mossad... I am quite sure they know how to take care of themselves and will do so when necessary. i am not a big proponent of torture. but i find it utterly ridiculous that America frets about relatively minor slights, while radical Islam's idea of torture involves castration and being dragged through the streets by a pick up truck traveling 40 mph until the only thing hanging on the rope is a 5 inch piece of your cervical spine. you say leave it to the nazis. good idea. i say leave the CIA alone and allow them to do their job.
The interesting thing that Gerecht argument overlooks for most of the article pops up at the end when he admits that the CIA "hardly did a superlative job" in the build up to 9/11. In what way has this organization earned free reign? Even the Bush Administration used them as a scapegoat after the WMD fiasco.
You're right James. The CIA botched the 9/11 intel. Especially when FBI agent's Colleen Rowley's letter sat on a desk at Langley the morning of 9/11/01 detailing her concerns about suspicious flight training activity in Minnesota. It's easy to point fingers and distribute blame. Take me for instance, I like to blame Frank Church.
Well, as a liberal, I'm supposed to distribute blame in the same way I'd like to redistribute wealth, right?
The thing I don't get is that the Bush Administration, supposedly based on the conservative principle of personal responsibility, has done nothing but point the finger since 9/11. It really would be an astounding achievement of verbal pyrotechnics if lives hadn't been involved.
Not to mention that intelligence actually did warn the administration about 9/11 and was ignored: http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/10/bush.briefing/
But while blaming arrogant cowards for their idiotic, murderous actions is the fun part, it's not the main point for me at the end of the day.
For me the lesson to learn from these failures isn't that conservatives are idiots and liberals know everything. The lesson is that the people in charge at these big, prestigious buildings are human beings. They are not robots programmed to give the right answers. They are fallible and limited by their subjectivity and prejudices and therefore their actions and decisions should be subject to scrutiny and transparency.
Here is an interview with the director of the war comedy 'In the Loop'. I thought he makes a strong argument about the conflict between the image and reality of government institutions. http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/10503
Mike - that is a sardonic and truly illogical statement. Sorry no free pass here on that one.
ReplyDeletePlease read these observations by WSJ.
ReplyDeletehttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203706604574377130844113174.html
Thank you.
I'll side with John McCain, Ronald Reagan, and the Israelis on this one: torture is illegal and ineffective. I say leave it to the Nazis--we're better than that.
ReplyDeletewell that's pretty good company to keep. but read the article. it's quite provocative. i know i have heard McCain's bona fide opinion on this matter. although i do not recall Regan weighing in the subject. as for the Mossad... I am quite sure they know how to take care of themselves and will do so when necessary. i am not a big proponent of torture. but i find it utterly ridiculous that America frets about relatively minor slights, while radical Islam's idea of torture involves castration and being dragged through the streets by a pick up truck traveling 40 mph until the only thing hanging on the rope is a 5 inch piece of your cervical spine. you say leave it to the nazis. good idea. i say leave the CIA alone and allow them to do their job.
ReplyDeleteHere are two good pieces on Reagan and torture:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/05/01/shifts/
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/04/reagan-on-torture-prosecutions.html
I agree with you; leave the CIA alone to do its job and don't ask them to break any U. S. laws in the process.
The interesting thing that Gerecht argument overlooks for most of the article pops up at the end when he admits that the CIA "hardly did a superlative job" in the build up to 9/11. In what way has this organization earned free reign? Even the Bush Administration used them as a scapegoat after the WMD fiasco.
ReplyDeleteYou're right James. The CIA botched the 9/11 intel. Especially when FBI agent's Colleen Rowley's letter sat on a desk at Langley the morning of 9/11/01 detailing her concerns about suspicious flight training activity in Minnesota.
ReplyDeleteIt's easy to point fingers and distribute blame. Take me for instance, I like to blame Frank Church.
It's a well-known fact that Minnesota has the BEST flight training schools in America.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc_whistleblower1.htm
ReplyDeleteMinnesota also has the BEST FBI agents in the country.
ReplyDeleteWell, as a liberal, I'm supposed to distribute blame in the same way I'd like to redistribute wealth, right?
ReplyDeleteThe thing I don't get is that the Bush Administration, supposedly based on the conservative principle of personal responsibility, has done nothing but point the finger since 9/11. It really would be an astounding achievement of verbal pyrotechnics if lives hadn't been involved.
Not to mention that intelligence actually did warn the administration about 9/11 and was ignored:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/10/bush.briefing/
But while blaming arrogant cowards for their idiotic, murderous actions is the fun part, it's not the main point for me at the end of the day.
For me the lesson to learn from these failures isn't that conservatives are idiots and liberals know everything. The lesson is that the people in charge at these big, prestigious buildings are human beings. They are not robots programmed to give the right answers. They are fallible and limited by their subjectivity and prejudices and therefore their actions and decisions should be subject to scrutiny and transparency.
Here is an interview with the director of the war comedy 'In the Loop'. I thought he makes a strong argument about the conflict between the image and reality of government institutions.
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/10503
I wonder if it was called the Flight Training School of America.
ReplyDelete